Eric knows this is utopian dreaming, but wishes folks would stop taking what's offered and start *making* the jobs they want to work
Max says, "its easy to create the job, creating the pay that goes with it is the hard bit"
Claudine . o O ( that's what grants are for, max, eh? )
Kiwi says to Gofy, "Basically, you have to guide them by their pocketbooks"
Kiwi says to Gofy, "Show them that students want technology. That businesses who fund grants want technology. And that YOU have the skills they need to get that $"
One of our reviewers, Dickie Selfe, suggested that a list of job descriptions would be productive. We have put this on the agenda and we will be MOOing it soon.
Nestor_Guest says to Gofy, "change the evaluators ;-)"
Nestor_Guest is only partly joking
Eric says, "or if the evaluators won't change, secede"
Nestor_Guest asks Eric, "secede from what? the unit? the University? life?"
Eric says to Nestor_Guest, "from the university, from the institutions that are not designed to value alien structures and are either slow to change or immune to it"
Nestor_Guest says to Eric, "you raise a most interesting question...the problem is who is really on our side and who isn't...the terrain is hard to tell"
Eric says, "I think it *might* be easier to find support out in society, from individuals, organization, business, government agencies, etc. than to convince the entrenched university hierarchy that it should support the interversity. I'm not *sure* about that, just wondering if it's an option we ought to be exploring more than we do"
Eric says to Gofy, "I sometimes think getting a job in a school *is* getting a job outside education! ;)"
elsie_guest says, "our tech guy gives us a percentae of time and faculty HAVE TO LEARN how to MOO"
elsie_guest says, "we have doc students who are dying to be wizards"
Nestor_Guest says to elsie_guest, "doing MOO support should be at least one course released...alternative teaching duty"
NewBob_guest says, "I believe MOO/MUDding is like research. If you want to do it, you do it regardless of being paid $$ and look to the benefits of doing MUD related research AND publishing the results. That is what gains respect in academia."
EricM_guest asks NewBob_guest, "Being poor is respected in academia and a sign of incompetence in the business world, eh?"
EricM_guest says, "Then the only other question is, if it *is* important for teaching or research, do you need and can you fund additional staff support so your students and faculty don't have to do that."
elsie_guest says, "ericM asks a sound question. my sense is that it's an uphill battle right now"
EricM_guest agrees it's uphill and that at this point students and faculty are stuck doing the non-academic tasks because there's no other funding.
elsie_guest says, "weeeeell, i find it IS kinda academic work."
For more on support issues, look again at the introduction.
EricM_guest wonders if we need f2f meetings, how will we convince anyone MOO's are terrific conferencing environments
EricM_guest says, "I've been to 5 MOO-related f2f meetings and I find what comes out is 1. it's more effective than MOOs for communication, 2. people trust you more if they've seen you"
EricM_guest says, "MOOs aren't even close to being as effective as f2f in conferencing."
Gustavo asks EricM_guest, "Really? How much work time would I have spent in flying to South CA for this meeting?"
Gofy nods and says, "It includes the entire world"
In the plans for future work, we have included both MOO and f2f conferences, since both serve an important role.
EricM_guest thinks the cost savings and long history of use are sufficient to promote MOOs
EricM_guest says, "And the fact that you can do somethings better, and somethings you can't do at all outside VR is great too (but might not be as convincing)."
Nestor_Guest says, "think about the medium folks...MOO is *supposed* to be *inter* active"
Eric says, "one (and you all have heard this b4): virtual reality isn't *real* and can't replace f2f interaction, nor even hold a candle to it "
Eric is refering to a discussion on the Inter*versity listserv thread, "Crowds or Quiet."
EricM_guest says, "Whether empirical data is 'really' needed or not, there are clearly some admin who want to see it."
elsie_guest says, "pardon my French, but f*&^ research. What's holding back MOOs is: lack of documentation, stability, ease of learning and maintaining..."
Jai thinks funding is going to come from different sources, and we need to be able to provide the type of claims, arguments, stories, facts that will appeal to the given funding audience.
Eric says to EricM_guest, "good point. we can make a strong case, too. of course, we're using rhetoric to battle tradition & belief, so it's a tough fight"
Even though many of us have been doing much of the necessary tasks enumerated above, we will need to continue to be pro active: we need to create our job descriptions, work actively in the evaluation of MOO, sponsor MOO and f22 meetings at all levels of the curriculum, help train others, especially our school administrators.