Are Jesters Serious? MOO Forum Logs

In response to the last question on our slides:
"Are we serious? Are we fools? Are we fooling ourselves in all seriousness?"
the wild rumpus starts...

SCog . o O ( yes. )

Gofy smiles at SCog and asks, "That easy?"

SCog . o O ( no prob )

EricM_guest says, "If you think you're helpless, yeah, you're probably fools. ;)"

SCog notes that another word for fool is doppelganger

EricM_guest says to JMax_guest, "Ah, what do you call "serious" things? I call serious anything with wider social impact than your personal aquaintances or anything you get paid for."

Uranus_Guest thinks Eric's definition of play is too narrow

JMax_guest thinks EricM_guest's "socially productive" comment casts productivitiy in far too narrow terms.

EricM_guest says, "Mushy definitions make for mushy understanding. ;)"

JMax_guest says to EricM_guest, "Point taken"

Inventing Ourselves

Yoda_guest it's not formal yet, because they are still being defined, and most people have trouble accepting something they can't define.

SCog says to Gofy, "the reconition has to come from the academic structure if that's where we are. We have to invent the reconizability"

JMax_guest says, "Every description of MOO starts with the game thing... it's something everyone can grasp. What happens later is harder to picture unless you're THERE"

EricM_guest doesn't think anything called *jester is gonna get much serious attention ;)

Max grins at EricM. Its code for 'very serious'

Different MOOs for Different Purposes?
Max thinks there should be enough different kinds of MOOs that some being branded as 'silly' doesnt really hurt.

Jai says to Max, "Some folsk would prefer those to be "socail" MOOs though"

elsie_guest says, "oh..i'm sick of that false dichotomy"

Jeanne says to elsie_guest, "it's not so false when youre trying to get nervous admins to approve your MOO"

Are MOOs productive places, jesterly or seriously?
JMax_guest asks, "Can anyone define 'deing productive' in MOO terms? Like, can you ever really get 'serious' things done in MOOspace?"

Gustavo says to JMax_guest, "Well, I'd think BioMOO has been quite productive, and 'serious' stuff has been done in it."

JMax_guest asks Gustavo, "Does that make it the exception, or paragon?"

Gustavo says to JMax_guest, "I don't think BioMOO is an exception - as far as professional-oriented MOOs go."

Where's the $$$$$
Happy_Guest has strong feelings about when and whether people should be paid.

Gustavo asks Happy_Guest, "should they?"

Happy_Guest thinks people should get paid for their moo work if it directly involves the teaching mission of an existing institution, for example.

How do we "classify" MOOs?
Gustavo wonders whether 'professional' MOOs are a subclass of 'educational' ones, or just a related type.

Gofy says to Gustavo, "Related I guess.."

Do we classify MOOs by way of what we do?
Colega_guest says, "Well, just about *anything* you do on a language MOO contributes to learning the language."

Gustavo says to Gofy, "BioMOO has hosted various professional seminars, and some graduate level courses."

MOO Realities: Fact or Fiction?
Colega_guest asks, "MOOs are societies you can write in. They are books you can walk around in. Books sell, don't they?"

EricM_guest says, "MOOs *can be* novels, if they're built that way."

Colega_guest exclaims, "Oh my god, if I could sell some of the stories going on in MundoHispano! whew!!!! they'd go like hotcakes!"

Gustavo says to Colega_guest, "MOOs are novels? That's about as true as saying that 'MOOs are games'."

SCog (Sharon Cogdill) ups the scholarly ante by introducing Oldenberg's notions of "third place." Several people, obviously familiar with the concept, discussed this theory as it might apply to MOO as a work/play/home community. Others, not familiar with Oldenberg, were free to go to SCog's excellent piece, "@go Tuesday."

MOO as Scholarly Intertextuality and "Third Place"

SCog says, "I found Oldenberg's notion of 'third place' really influential"

SCog says, "there's work, there's living (or maybe play), and thent there's the third place... where community get constructed, society gets formed"

JMax_guest asks EricM_guest, "I was thinking about things you get paid for. Do we get paid in 'third places'?"

We drop this sliver of Nick Carbone's post to ACW-L as a *qooc (quoted out of context). We like the play of statement and counter-statement as we continue to define these issues.

On Wed, 26 Feb 1997, Nick Carbone wrote:
> What we consider space and ownership and the need for response, to be
> heard, will be gotten by finding places--lists, MOOs, web-forums, homes,
> jobs (I don't think one can separate the online from the off, they each
> effect oneanother), bars--where when one speaks, someone else responds.
> I'm leary of the term 'third place;' I think its over used and carelessly
> used (I know from having done as much).  But how we come to define space,
> ownership, and authority will, I think, ulitmately be less determined by
> computer technology and access and whether a hard drive, and more by where
> I am heard and where do I listen (email).

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Janet Cross

Kristian Fuglevik