Evaluative On-line ConferenceMay 7, 1997
Present: MarcWilson (Marc), Dan Irvin (Dan), Webster Newbold (No1)
Comments referred to in the article appear in RED
Logging turned on at Wed May 07 14:07:33 1997
<No1> Hello, logging is on. Dan--I didn't hear from anyone else about this 2pm time, unfortunately.
<No1> So, our conversation will probably be informal--just the guys.
<Dan> I will miss what Melissa has to say. She usually has an opinion about something.
<Marc> I am switching to another machine. This has a "shrinking" screen.
<No1> Well, Dan, yes. Maybe she will join or maybe she has a final scheduled. But I didn't hear from her one way or the other.
<No1> How about a question?
<Dan> So I don't get off track, our goal today is to?
<No1> Everythink ok over there in Labland?
<No1> oops
<No1> Our goal is to evaluate the conferencing experience in ENG 103 WWW.
<Marc> I' BaAack
<No1> Are the contestants ready for the first question?
<Marc> yes
<No1> How difficult was it to "get started conferencing"? Did you need extra help or were the instructions in Orientation and on the course site sufficient?
<Dan> Had my interaction ability at home been better this course would have been easier. However, I did enjoy seeing some of the people in the class.
<No1> Dan, did you have difficulties at first with the mechanics of conferencing or did our Orientation time assist you sufficiently?
<Marc> This was the first time I had participated in an evironment that was 100% computer mediated (after the orientation session). I knew I had been given the information that I needed, and I knew I could find someone to help me with the unknows as they came up
<Dan> The orientation class was sufficient. I think that possible a follow up after the coures starst may be a good idea once people have had a chance to use it.
<Marc> still I was aprehensive about how it would all work out.
<No1> Dan, but follow up, do you mean a session back here at BSU or on-line?
<No1> darn, I mean "BY follow up"
<Dan> On line, providing everyone has figured how to get online.
<Marc> I agree with Dan's idea. A follow up a few weeks later would allow students to ask the questions that hadn't occured to them earlier, and might build a sense of community within the various groups
<Marc> I had envisioned a FTF follow up
<Dan> Maybe a chat session just dealing with the computer and communications aspect.
<No1> OK, Dan, I get you. Good point and I think we'll do that next time.
<Marc> yes, that could work as long as people were equipped and confident about using the equipment
<No1> Marc--FTF is hard when people are scattered all over the state. But FTF would be best, to be sure.
<Marc> you're right. it would be difficult.
<No1> I have another question, right down Dan's alley...ready?
<Dan> ready
<Marc> perhaps the FTF meetings could be scheduled and published before the class starts
<No1> Did you have trouble with your Internet connection or provider that prevented you from using NSChat? Who is your Internet Service Provider?
<Marc> ready
<Marc> Gosh, I'd love to blame it on someone else, but. . .
<Dan> Yes, I use prodigy which until recently did not have access to Netscape. I even had trouble some nights just using Prodigy.
<Dan> I called and complained and got half off of one months bill.
<No1> Dan, is it your sense that Prodigy limits access of its members to general WWW free resources, such as Netscape products?
<Dan> I believe their new Prodigy Online service will work but do not know that for a fact.
<Marc> I have had pretty good luck with CIOE. They are suffering growth pains, like everyone else. Most of the technical problems seemed to involve phone lines and modem banks
<Dan> I had communication with Prodigy and the technical people didn't have many answers for me.
<Dan> I did like the Netscape program even if I didn't have it at home.
<No1> Dan, that seems pretty strange, since your platform of Windows 3.1 and the Netscape products are the most standard in the country.
<Marc> Dan, the technical people at CIOE/ECICNET seemed customer oriented. They called me back, sent e-mail messages, and did good follow up if I ever expressed a concern
<Marc> Things weren't perfect with ECICNET, but they DID TRY
<Dan> My problem was with registration for the online service. They kept telling me it would be fixed , try it later.
<No1> Dan, what does Prodigy's "online service" provide?
<Dan> I may be a special case. Hopefully the other class members had better luck. The Prodigy onlin service provides unlimited internet time and Netscape for 19.99 a month. I am not sure if NS Chat is a paart of it though.
<Marc> isn't NSCHAT an option or extension of NScape?
<Dan> ?
<No1> Dan, NSChat is free when you download it from the Netscape site. I remember there was some problem with downloading?
<No1>
<Dan> I did download the software but didn't hav a server that would support it.
<No1> Marc's right--NSChat works along with Netscape navigator browser.
<Dan> I put 20 meg of memory on my computer also.
<Marc> I thought so. If you have one, then the other should work, too.
<No1> You have plenty of memory, Dan (your computer does, that is...) I guess I could never understand what kept your Chat from functioning.
<Marc> We operate it with 16 MGs RAM, and it worked fine .
<Dan> I paln on getting registered one way or another and I will be ready for English 104.
<No1> Dan, are you intending to do 104 by computer next spring?
<Marc> Have you considered changing service providers?
<Dan> Yes to both questions
<No1> Great! I'll be looking forward to that class
<Dan> I have another suggestion.
<No1> Shoot, Dan
<Marc> no don't shoot Dan
<Marc> I'm standing tooo close You might hit me
<No1> this is where commas are important....
<Marc> I knew that. I did. REally.
<Dan> An agenda for the chat session with expectations and the order we may try to go in.
<Dan> I think some people just showed up to see what was happening and wernt prepared.
<Marc> Yes. That might create a platform for getting everyone involved, make it feel more like an attendance/assignment, so that the whole group shows up.
<No1> Dan--much of the time I was assuming that the Interactions assignment for the week acted as an agenda, but you are porbably right that I need to maybe reporduce that agenda within the conference at the outset.
<Dan> I know the interactions covered most of this but maybe they could be structured in a way that creates personal responsibility
<Marc> of course, I liked the free wheeling give and take. But after the first round of "presentations" that would happen anyway.
<No1> Dan, by "the order we may try to go in" do you mean the order of speaking first on a topic--like "Dan, Melissa, then Angie"?
<Dan> Yes, when people see their name on the line up they may be somewhat more prepared.
<No1> The general tendency in teaching with synchronous conferencing is to allow pretty wide freedom of discussion, i which ideas and interactions establish their own pattern and encourage involvement and thoughtful responses. But in a distance ed situation it may be that more teacher control is necessary because of the more tenuous nature of the contact between participants.
<Marc> Dan's idea may be a good balance between teacher control and who cares.
<Dan> Yes, when your looking at a screen it's hard to see the participation of everyone as you would in a class room setting.
<Marc> Dan commented aside that if people knew they were responsible for having a few PRE prepared lines on a topic to present -- sort of a panal format -- then attendance and participation might be encouraged
<No1> Yes, Dan, unless you're sitting next to Melissa and Jeff, in which case you get a lot of local action!
<Marc> NEVER sit between. . .
<Dan> Amen Brother
<No1> Dan and Marc--I think you will find that in many Interactions assignments many such pre-prepared assignments were in fact made. I didn't insist on carrying out these plans because it would involve by crossing over from "good cop" to "tough cop" and change the dynamics somewhat.
<Dan> I did appreciate being able to go to the web sight at any time and review what was due, when it was due and the weekly information.
<No1> This first time round for a WWW course I was kind of treading on eggs to prevent misunderstandings and maybe even hard feelings, which can unexpectedly crop up in an electronic communication environment which lacks meta-linguistic communication dues and other non-verbal ways for us to say "I'm not really being a pain" and "I'm kidding."
<Dan> I also have a different point of view concerning taking this class. I didn't just take it because it's required, I wanted to understand writing. There are those who may take it to get it out of the way.
<Marc> Yes. Distance ed, like any colligial environmentt probably isn't for every student. Some measure of committment , self discipline , work ethic/integrety above and beynd conventional classes is needed
<No1> that's "meta-linguistic communication CUES"
<Marc> Dan could this kind of class serve either kind of student?
<No1> Dan, 103 is required and that's why 99% of people take it...I'm glad you are one of the truly "self-responsible educating learners"!
<Dan> It sure can, Each student can get out of it what they want. It can serve all types of students. I don't think anyone would be limited.
<Dan> At 40 years old my motivation is different from most Ball State students.
<Marc> If the course is structured to be more "encouraging" for the less motivated student, wouldn't stiffling the more motivated student be a concern
<Marc> for instance, if Dr. Newbold were giving 15 pints for signing on to chat sessions, or giving "participation" grades at the end of each session, would that diminish the value of the class in your estimation?
<No1> Marc--15 pints--of beer?
<Marc> sorry, that's POINTS, not PINTS (pints might work better though)
<Dan> I think this course is wide open for each student to get what they want. Some only want a passing grades and they would accomplish the task.
<Marc> good pint/point
<No1> Yes, it's hard to make people like or really want to do things unless they are personally motivated. We teachers think that because WE are motivated to read and converse that others should be too, but we need to keep a realistic perspective on tis matter.
<Dan> The class also teaches internet and communication skills as a bonus. I know a lot more about my computer and the internet than I did when this class started.
<No1> I guess my goal has been more and more to try to show students they have a stake in participating--and if they find that is true, they will join in and do their best.
<No1> Dan--indeed we are now almost computer geeks...
<Dan> oops I just dropped my pocket protector
<No1> I have another question--ready?
<Marc> the blending of writing skills in the class seems to be an important rhetorical development.
<Dan> yes
<Marc> ready
<No1> What have you found to be difficult with CONVERSING in an on-line conference?
<No1> In other words, is anything hard about basic communicating of ideas back and forth?
<Marc> are we refering to TECHNICAL or INTERPERSONAL difficulties
<Dan> When multiple conversations are going on it is hard to keep focused on who is saying what.
<Dan> Sometimes the screen is going faster than I can read it .
<Marc> Yes. One has to get used to grabbing a "string" of thought, and sticking with it as other things are looped on around it
<No1> Marc, I'm referring to DISCOURSE in this mode--what's hard or problematical?
<Marc> Dan, do you ever find yourself holding multiple converstations in that environment?
<No1> "Multiple conversations"--yes, I think these are fun but confusing.
<Dan> Sometimes I find myself answering questions from more than one person that are no longer on the screen . By the time I get them typed it's to late.
<Marc> Sometimes the significennt product is the transcript that is available for review at the end. It is like a multiple-input-free-writing
<Dan> Teaching everyone the function of the whisper mode might help clear up aome of the clutter on the screen.
<Dan> They might also miss half of the class having a personal conversation.
<No1> Dan, good point about whisper, although people not on NSChat may have trouble whispering.
<No1> Just like in the "real classroom"--people whispering in the back of the room!
<Marc> Does the lobby serve software other than NSC?
<Marc> i didn't know that.
<No1> Marc, any IRC-based interface will do conferencing; NSChat works well with Netscape navigator so I recommend that, but even IRC on the VAX will work. It's all based on the same INternet chat portocols.
<No1> protocols
<Marc> thanks.
<Marc> Would there be some utitlity in teaching students how to save the transcript from remote sites for their own use? I know they are posted to the class site eventually.
<No1> How about direct address? It seems to me that always using a person's name IF you are answering or asking something is much better way to help everyone knwo which direction the conversation or comment is connected.
<No1> Dan, did you notice I tried to encourage direct address?
<Marc> yes No 1, that is a great idea
<Dan> I agree, some people kept changing names during a conversation.
<Marc> yeah, I have noticed that in some other chat situations. I wonder what that is all about -- wonder what Freud would say?
<No1> A particular porblem results when a comment is made, then two or three other comments intervene before someone replies to the original comment. If the responder doesn't use direct address, there is no way to tell where the discourse is connected...all is chaos.
<Dan> That is something that could be discussed in the orientation session.
<No1> On changing identities--one day I got really confused about who was who--and only got back on track with Jeff's help.
<Marc> I suppose, like good mannars taught to children, we need to learn to do some things by repetition and habit
<Dan> Ah, yes chat etiquite. I don't know if that s how you spell it.
<Dan> Does Ball State offer a spelling class?
<No1> Etiquette--and no we don't
<Dan> Thank you
<Marc> Shh. No.1 will have me signed up for it
<No1> I have a final question for Dan. REady?
<Dan> yes
<No1> Can you remember any specific instances when you were helped with a writing project by peer or teacher comments in a conference?<Dan> Yes the evening we discussed prayer in school. There were many opinions shared that gave me a better idea on how to apporach the group i was trying to address. It also gave me son\me ideas I had not considered before in developing my opinions.
<No1> Dan, so other students' comments were helpful in that?
<Dan> The discussion we had about the abuse of the police officer was also interesting. In the chat sessions give you a perspective of how the general public thinks. I you don't get some new ideas you wern't listening (reading)]
<Dan> I even listened to Melissa.
<No1> Melissa has a lot of strong comments
<Dan> Yes she did. You couldnt' see my red face on the computer.
<No1> So, Dan, could you sum up the significance of the chat sessions in your experience of the course? Were they "A little helpful," or "helpful," or "quite helpful," or "Very helpful"?
<Marc> perhaps that is one advantage of this medium; it gives people a time to consider the discourse, and to consider their own response more carefully -- if they choose to.
<Dan> Quite helpful. I could of written the papers but they would not have been as good (presuming they were good) if I hand not had a chance to get the feed back from the other members of the class.
<Dan> papers
<Dan> a key boarding class may be in my future
<Marc> I am laughing WITH you Dan, not AT you. . .
<No1> Dan--thanks for your really helpful comments. I'm going to let you go now (because I have some tasks to get to pronto) but I'm glad we got a chance to have this wrap-up session.
<Dan> I'll bring you the survey,
<No1> And thanks, Marc, for taking time out of a busy day (they're all busy days, it seems)--sorry your schedule didn't mesh well with the conferences this semester. Next time, you will be incharge and can set it up right!
Logging turned off at Wed May 07 15:25:03 1997