Kairos Meet The Author Series

Hosted by Jennifer L. Bowie, Kairos Response Editor 
 

The following is the log of the Session. 

Kairos

Jennifer shows slide #1. 

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Welcome to this session of KMTA  _K_airos _M_eet _T_he _A_uthors MOO Series! 

The Meet the Authors Series is a Lingua MOO forum in which the Authors of Kairos webtexts lead discussions about the issues raised in the texts as published. MOO Logs for these texts will be edited for publication and reaction in forthcoming issues of the journal. 

Featuring: 
  Michelle Sidler Author of "Hyped-Up for Friends- Cultural Studies  and  Web Research in Composition" 
  http://english.ttu.edu/kairos/1.3/features/sidler/bridge.html 
 

Hosted by Jennifer Bowie 
If you have any questions on how to MOO contact Jennifer (type  'page Jennifer your question or concerns' or type 'help introduction' 

Thank you for joining us.  
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Sidler says, "it's nice to see my name in e-print" 
 

Jennifer shows slide #2. 

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This discussion will be logged and archived. 
  ***Please state your name and your affiliation***. 
To continue this and other discussions of Kairos pieces, please consider joining our email discussion list, KMTA. To join you can send mail to 
<Majordomo@utdallas.edu> with the following command in the body of your email  message: 

   subscribe kmta 
 ______________________________________ 
  
  
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BillHD is Bill Hart-Davidson at Purdue University 

Jennifer is Jennifer Bowie Response editor an of RPI 

wendyg says, "I am Wendy Greenstein who got an MA at Purdue and teaches in Long Beach Ca. at a jr college" 

Sidler  is Michelle A. Sidler of Purdue University (soon to be Penn State Berks Lehigh Valley College).  Herein is Sidler only because Michelle won't take. 

doiuglasEy quietly enters. 
doiuglasEy arrives. 

Jennifer says, "Michelle probably is already used by someone" 

Jennifer shows slide #3. 

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Quote of the week: 
"Web sites are hyped-up virtual representations of the American popular  experience, presented oftentimes as information and decontextualized into  unfamiliar space." 
 

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BillHD says, "what an eminently quotable quote"

Sidler says, "yeah, that's one of my better ones." 

Jennifer smiles "I'm glad I choose well 
Jennifer says, "Here come the discussion prompts"

Sidler says, "ready!" 

Jennifer with a flourish shows slide 4 
 

                      * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
Thoughts and questions: 

"The lines between editorial information and advertising [on the web] were  (and are) not totally clear and continue to get blurrier, how 
like television  shows products can have a narrative of their own in popular culture, as seen  through narrative advertising such as that of the Coca-Cola and Gramercy Press  network MCI pages." 

"...we must first help students to research technology itself before we use it  as a vehicle for change." 

"Computers must become not just the media through which we study the  connection between cultural artifacts and hegemonic power, but the subject and  site of such discussions as well." 

                      * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
 

wendyg says, "hedgemonic is a new word for me. Can you define it?" 

BillHD says, "Doug didn't get to introduce himself" 

Sidler says, "bill says I sound too theoretically" 

Jennifer [to Sidler]: so? and besides sounding "theoretically" sounds important :) 

doiuglasEy [to BillHD]: Well, hi--I'm doug. 

wendyg says, "I think what was said about blurred lines might refer to any good advertising" 

Sidler says, "well, it's a ten dollar word that basically means  the ruling ideologies and cultural norms that are maintained in a  society by a variety of social, cultural and political forces. Is that vague enough?" 

Jennifer says, "I agree w/ wendyg. Just look at women's  magazines. They are often prevented from discussing series issues  because of their advertisers" 

BillHD watches Michelle frantically compose a definition of  hegemonic... 

Jennifer nods at Sidler definition "vague definitions are great " 

doiuglasEy [to wendyg]: kinda like the borg 

Sidler says, "yes. and I think the web is because it makes those  connections even more obvious." 

Jennifer nods agreement w/ Sidler 

wendyg thinks she prefers the borg to hedgemonic 

Sidler says, "what I meant to say is that the web is a great way  to talk about those issues." 

BillHD says, "Computers must become not just the media through  which we study them" 

Jennifer says, "Its one thing to have an emaciated model on one  page and a diet tips on an other, quiet different on the web" 

wendyg says, "do you mean the media is the message?" 

Jennifer says, "nothing like using the medium one is discussing  to discuss it. That has happened many times on KMTA" 

Sidler says, "well, a lot of times, students don't make the  connections as easily in print for some reason. or at least  that's been my experience." 

BillHD failed to cut and paste the 'hegemonic power' quote 

Sidler says, "look it up, bill." 

Jennifer says, "Print is not as obvious. I'm not sure when I  began making those connections as obvious as they may be, for  magazines." 

wendyg doesn't care if she never hears hedgemonic again 

wendyg says, "are we discussing ads on the web?" 

Sidler says, "yes, I always say that all writing is technology,  but computers just make that fact more obvious.  The same can be  said about issues of advertising." 

doiuglasEy says, "hedgemonic=the dominant discourse of gardening." 

Jennifer nods to Bill 

Sidler says, "remind me never to hegemonize anything ever again  in writing..." 

Jennifer smiles at Sidler 

wendyg says, "it's nice to be among friends!" 
wendyg says, "I think my students feels computers have taken the  technology out of the writing process--made it more of a natural  act" 

Sidler says, "Fascinating!  how?" 

BillHD says, "the point of Michelle's comment is well made,  though, that we should involve students in active use *and* critique of the web as a way to explore the power new tech. has  to reinforce existing power structures" 

Jennifer says, "Can it even be said we are writing any more? I  mean I consider "writing" to be what a pen on pencil can do on  paper. Typing doesn't quiet sound the same :)" 

wendyg says, "it's more like mindmelding" 

doiuglasEy [to Jennifer]: perhaps we are composing--as in  composition 

wendyg says, "I compose, therefore I am" 

Jennifer nods to doiuglasEy 

Sidler says, "of course, i consider the pen and paper to be technologies, too.  so, it's only a different type of  technology." 

BillHD says, "That's curious, because just ten years ago students  found pencil & paper to be natural, while the computer was just a  way to "type up" what was already composed" 

doiuglasEy . o O ( couldn't even spell my own name on raw telnet ) 

wendyg says, "many of my students never found paper and pen or  typewriters for that matter as natural as the computer" 

Jennifer says, "I switched from first draft (or rough- the 1st  version) of my "compositions" on paper to being on computer in  '96. before that I HAD to write 1st in paper." 

doiuglasEy [to Sidler]: but do you distinguish between different  media within the technology of the computer? 

BillHD just got James Kalmbach's new book called _The Computer &  The Page_ that is a great discussion of this 

Sidler says, "I have spent several years convincing some people  that their writing won't disappear if it is in the computer." 

wendyg says, "I've seen it disappear!" 

BillHD disappears 
BillHD lurks, invisible 

Jennifer says, "I think that both versions of writing are  unnatural, or at least equally unnatural" 
 
wendyg says, "I find student forums, chat rooms and MOOs to be a freer "language" environment; thereby encouraging expression" 

doiuglasEy [to Sidler]: I mean, you can see the kind of drive to hegemony (or at least a capitalist-driven buyeconomic model of  the web) on the web whereas spaces like Usenet news and to some degree discussions lists are more like contact zones--anything *but* hegemonic. 

Sidler says, "yes, to some extent.  I talk about the different  responses my students got" 

wendyg winces at the H word 

Sidler says, "when they used newsgroups vs web stuff.  Less  hegemone more chaos." 

BillHD says, "I think that if Usenet could support a rich-enough transfer of info, it would become a colonized space as well.  As it is, it's a text-on only ghetto that advertisers deem to impoverished to care about" 

Sidler says, "ok, less of the "selling" of one view and more interaction." 
Sidler says, "does anyone know how usenet traffic is doing?  are there more or less people using those systems since the emergence  of the web?" 

doiuglasEy [to BillHD]: you've clearly not seen the huge spam  advertising initiative which takes place on most newsgroups. Of course, the links (of hypertext) aren't ht there--it's a  different medium altogether. 

BillHD says, "the web's ability to support ad-discourse is no accident...the Internet was on the verge of becoming all *too* democratic before some" 

Jennifer says, "I have heard that some companies are even beginning to use email to advertise by paying people to attach something like sig files for the company to their emails" 

Sidler says, "to what extent has the web ghettoized these other systems?" 

Jennifer says, "Sidler I have no idea 'bout Usenet traffic" 

doiuglasEy [to Sidler]: Usenet is still very strong, but the  users are more technologically proficient, since it 's a more difficult medium to negotiate. 

BillHD says, "Usenet Spam is still pretty much limited to less than reputable companies, though.  You get a lot of pyramid mail  and stuff, but in that way, it's like direct (snail) mail.  " 

Jennifer says, "the web does some times advertise the Usenets" 

Sidler says, "but somehow, it seems easier to recognized and  fight spamming.  I ought to tell you about my brother's friend.  he is a spam vigilante." 

wendyg says, "I have no problems with spam" 

doiuglasEy nods BillHD 

BillHD fixes himself a spam sandwich w/mustard 

wendyg says, "but what exactly are we discussing?" 

doiuglasEy hums the spam song... 

wendyg sticks pins into her hegemonic doll 

BillHD says, "maybe we ought to see the discussion topics again?" 
 
Jennifer says, "We do not have to stick to them by any means, but  okay" 

doiuglasEy will have pueblo downloaded and installed in about 12 minutes, so that's how long you'll have to put up with my  horrible typos. 

Jennifer shows slide #4. 

                      * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *  
Thoughts and questions:  

"The lines between editorial information and advertising [on the web] were (and are) not totally clear and continue to get blurrier, how like television shows products can have a narrative of their own in popular culture, as seen through narrative advertising such as that of the Coca-Cola and Gramercy Press network MCI pages."  

"...we must first help students to research technology itself before we use it as a vehicle for change."  

"Computers must become not just the media through which we study the connection between cultural artifacts and hegemonic power, but  
the subject and site of such discussions as well."  

                      * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *  

Sidler says, "well we've sort of veered to talking about the effect about the different effects of technologies and advertising.  That's close to the original topic isn't it?" 

Jennifer says, "As I said it doesn t matter what we talk about. Its really dependant on what we all want to discuss" 

BillHD says, "Hey Michelle, what do you mean when you say we must get students to research technology itself...like to research the hardware, software, code, etc? or are you talking like, the cultural implications of writing technologies, etc?" 

Sidler says, "i do think the lines are "blurrier" on the web. there's more "style" to make it palatable." 

wendyg says, "Is it really that different than other forms of advertising/  Bill boards? t.v.?" 
wendyg says, "my students are not happy when they click into an ad by mistake. They do not find it palatable" 
wendyg says, "did anyone else see the billboard with the two cowboys with one saying I sure miss my lung, Bob?" 

Sidler says, "no, i don't think it's different from other media in many of its effects, but we can access it directly in the classroom.  We also as teachers tend embrace computers more than, say, Silk Stalkings or GQ magazine, too.  So, we might overlook some of these connections." 

BillHD says, "I think what Michelle was implying, though, was that even the stuff that looks like 'information' - her example is the Friends site - is really just masquerading as such...it's really proprietary" 

Jennifer says, "what exactly do you mean by advertising? The obvious ads at the headers and footers, or something more subtle?" 
Jennifer watches as her question gets mostly answered by Bill 

wendyg says, "ok I get the point about bringing it into the classroom" 

Sidler says, "but so much of the web is not just headers and  footers-- corporate home pages for example.  We often need  information from these places but we must distinguish the info from the promo." 

Jennifer says, "the actual obvious ads are like magazines and billboards. The more subtle forms are really the ones blurring the edges" 

BillHD says, "the  info from the promo'...jeez, Michelle, you're Puff-Daddy over here.." 

Jennifer begins pondering advertising on the web. 

wendyg says, "yes, but isn't that similar to other sources? who is the publisher? who owns the company?" 
wendyg says, "part of evaluating any source to asking such questions" 

Jennifer says, "I have recently been looking up artists (musicians) sites lately. I have no been convinced to buy anything because I only look up people whose CDs I have" 

Sidler says, "yeah, and these show up in magazines in different forms.  Have you ever seen those "articles" in magazines that say at the bottom of the page (PAID ADVERTISEMENT).  Can we have some of that on the web?" 

BillHD says, "Good point Wendy.  The questions that we suggest students ask about information - like who is the funding source - become even higher stakes on the web..." 

Jennifer says, "even w/ the words paid advertisement (which I miss right off the bat) it takes me a bit to realize they are ads" 

wendyg says, "I see right through them" 

Sidler says, "Jennifer, how often do you see critique of any of these artist's material either?  Does anyone question the purchase of such material?  or of course, its content?" 

wendyg says, "a good student project might be why are these ads on the web? is the price too high?" 

Jennifer says, "So If I was to put up a site on some musician would I be advertising her?" 

wendyg says, "and women's right to make music?" 

BillHD says, "h"stick with me on this one...but Jennifer's comment that she only looks at Websites of stuff she owns (CD's) is the 'hegemonic' function Michelle alludes to...i.e. that the web is not the inviting pool of information begging to be researched; rather, we are drawn to some sites and away from others by our consumer desires" 

wendyg says, "and music for all those non listeners" 

Sidler says, "Jennifer, I think it has that effect.  Remember professional musicians are selling products and services too. It's no different than having a page devoted to Coca-Cola, really." 

wendyg says, "yes, but so what? Aren't we used to this in our culture?" 

Jennifer says, "Are personal homepages just personal ads for what  the person likes and dislikes, and inherently for the person themselves?" 

Sidler says, "but in our classrooms?  How do we negotiate that?" 

wendyg says, "when you surf the web, you move faster than in other venue, thereby diluting the effect of "ads"" 

Jennifer says, "when does the info stop being an ads and start being something else?" 

Sidler says, "Jennifer, I think they're both.  At the most cynical, we are all advertising ourselves on the web, are we not?" 

BillHD says, "I like to ask my students how often they visit sites non-proprietary sites.., when they offer explanations for why they don't, they usually say "not enough cool pictures, etc." 
 

Sidler says, "Jennifer, you're question about theinfo/advertising line is a good one.  I don't have an easy answer.  But, as a good academic, I would say we need to research it." 

Jennifer [to Sidler]: we are advertising ourselves. 

wendyg says, "when you write, when you publish ior share, are you not advertising your pov?" 

Michael says, "we're still figuring this thing out ... but glad to be here .." 

Sidler says, "Wendy, i think so." 

doiuglasEy [to BillHD]: are there any non-proprietary sites? 

BillHD says, "good question Doug...especially since all the sites are framed by our proprietary browser..." 

Sidler says, "nice to meet you Michael.  good luck with the moo chaos." 
 
wendyg smells the Chinese food from across the alley inundating her senses 

Sidler says, "wendy, where's mine?" 

BillHD orders a pint of Hot-n-Sour Soup 

wendyg offers Sidler some shrimp low mein 

Jennifer wishes wendy would stop advertising Chinese food 

Sidler says, "you read my mind (or stomach...)" 

wendyg says, "maybe its just a clever way of advertising myself--by linking myself to Chinese food:  subliminal seduction!" 

Sidler says, "so what do we do with that nasty blurred line between advertising and information?" 

Jennifer says, "looks like you seduces hungry Sidler and Bill" Sidler says, "and Chinese food, of course." 
Jennifer smiles 

BillHD says, "the production value of a site sponsored by a multi-national and that of a personal home-page hosted on a freenet ISP marks another kind of distinction between Advertising (big A) and advertising(little a)" 

wendyg says, "I think we study and evaluate sites as well as other sources(interviews, books, etc.)" 

Jennifer says, "Being aware is always good." 

BillHD is against being aware 

wendyg says, "we make students more aware of the "ad" quality to sites." 

Jennifer puts blinders on Bill 

BillHD "ahh more Hegemony!" 

Sidler says, "bill has a point about production value.  that plays a part in this ad/info mess." 

Jennifer says, "maybe borg was a better word choice" 

wendyg offers Bill an eggroll 

BillHD is being blinded 
BillHD gropes wildly for eggroll 

Jennifer says, "Can we play pin the tale on Bill?" 

BillHD must be the "Ass" 

wendyg says, "It's not a mess. I learned about ads in grade school. We discussed ways of selling. As we discuss ways of  reasoning, argumentation" 

Sidler says, "you know though there is a distinction between the borg and hegemony.  H. implies that you like the control.  Borg is just sort of an unfeeling state, is it not?  " 
 

Jennifer thinks Sidler is right but doesn t have much borg experience 

whisper waves hi. 
whisper finds a seat in Kairos. 
BillHD says, "hey whisper" 
whisper says, "hi billhd" 
wendyg shouts hi to whisper 
whisper says, "hi wendyg" 
BillHD wonders what all the shouting is about 

douglasey [to Sidler]: the Borg is hegemony taken to the logical extreme of hive-mind. So, yeah, borg=hegemonic organization is quite simplistic. But it's a useful starting point for explaining one of *those* terms. 

Sidler says, "you know, i thought I might also ask how others are using the web, and web research in particular in their classes and what issues they want to bring up." 
Sidler says, "comp classes in particular." 

Jennifer says, "I have found web research to really only be helpful if its about something recent or odd." 

wendyg says, "I ask students to read a few pieces I have found on the web about evaluation and then to find one site that is "good" and another that isn't and write their own evaluation criteria." 
wendyg says, "of course, you start off by discussing the notion of evaluating sources, truth" 

Sidler says, "do you mean evaluating web materials, whisper?" 

BillHD says, "That's an interesting observation Jennifer...I am inclined to agree with you.  I guess that I'd add 'arcane' to that list, since somewhere, some psycho has made a site about just about anything someone can dream up..." 

Jennifer nods to bill 
Jennifer says, "and the more arcane the better. I'd say its much faster to find, odd, arcane, or recent info on the web" 

BillHD says, "I have" 

douglasey says, "Well, I'm not teaching this term, but I tend to use the web as a canvas--have the students build the pages. I think it might be useful to have students build homepages (which I've avoided in the past--in favor of having students create collaborative sites) and then have them analyze extant sites and then determine to what extent they have bought into the hegemonic impulse in their own designs." 

Sidler says, "Doug, yes, I've been pondering a similar type of assignment." 

Jennifer says, "the classroom spotlight for this issue is a high school class and the teachers has the students use the web to "publish" their writing, so the writings will be more professional" 

BillHD says, "I agree with Doug.  I have started to do more and more web authoring in the wake of inventions like "web TV" which threaten to make the web a read-only pipeline of narrowcast material" 

wendyg says, "is hedgemonic like deconstruction?" 

Sidler says, "Jennifer, does the teacher encourage them to publish material about social action or professional writing?" 
Sidler says, "or neither?" 

BillHD says, "there's a dissertation, Wendyg" 

Jennifer says, "neither really, they basically just "publish" their normal high school English assignments" 

whisper gets up from its seat. 
whisper tiptoes out. 

BillHD says, "deconstruction is a response to an overdetermined hegemonic rationalism..." 

Sidler says, "Bill, exactly." 

BillHD made that up... 

douglasey [to BillHD]: but I'm going to quote you. somehow. 

Sidler says, "it's easy for bill to know what I'm talking about cause he's sitting next to me in RL." 

BillHD looks around to make sure Derrida isn't somewhere 

Jennifer says, "Bill appears to be good on his feet!" 

wendyg says, "sit down Bill" 

Sidler says, "did whisper leave?" 

douglasey [to BillHD]: too late! Derrida, like Elvis, is everywhere. 

BillHD gets up from his chair. 
BillHD finds a seat in Kairos. 

Sidler says, "she would have liked bill's definition." 

Jennifer says, "Bill's comment will be published in the next Kairos. Maybe I'll find a way to highlight it!" 

wendyg says, "will Elvis read the next Kairos?" 

BillHD gags 

Jennifer watches bill move around again 

Sidler says, "I knew I made him join us for some reason." 

douglasey [to Sidler]: whois whisper? 
douglasey [to wendyg]: he's read all the other issues--don't see why he'd stop now. 

Sidler says, "she was in here for a while" 
Sidler says, "she left w/o saying goodbye." 

Jennifer says, "maybe she had technology problems" 

wendyg says, "we should have an Elvis night at the next C and W" 

douglasey [to Sidler]: I mean who is she in rl (I figured you knew her since you referred to her as a her.) 

Sidler says, "i do have another issue to bring up if it's ok" 

wendyg says, "ok" 

Jennifer says, "go ahead Sidler" 

Sidler says, "I just guessed about the gender, I guess.  Whispersounds feminine." 
Sidler says, "my other comment is as a new MOOer.  " 

BillHD whispers in a deep baritone 

Sidler says, "I have some observations." 
 

BillHD says, "I'm holdin' up my end of the deal..." 

Jennifer awaits Sidler's observations 

Michael says, "irony! we're (renee and i) are here to talk with y'all about advertising and she's making fun of my romeo & juliet screen saver ..." 

Sidler says, "MOOs discourage long discourse cause the conversation moves too fast.  Sort of like MTV." 
Sidler says, "and I am not a speed-Derrida-demon like Bill." 

Jennifer [to Sidler]: yes. This could be a pretty long discussion topic :) 

Sidler says, "not that I'm complaining, just observing." 

wendyg says, "I think--in a way--for me at least, they encourage discourse. i don't get bored." 

Jennifer says, "i think its because there are so many people all responding at the same time" 

wendyg says, "MOOs also give me a feeling of warmth and community that encourages discourse" 

Sidler says, "Wendy, I agree, and it's fun, but sort of like the Autobahn really. " 

wendyg says, "we listen to t.v. while we cook and think and talk.." 

douglasey [to Michelle]: well, yes and no--the longer discussions weave in and out of the carnival-language that MOOs seem to encourage. So there isn't a sense of sustained discussion, but it's there nonetheless. 

Sidler says, "I have however greatly improved my typing skills" 

Jennifer says, "I think discourse exists and is common but not as single topic as in other mediums" 

wendyg says, "you can scroll back to pick up a thread" 

douglasey [to wendyg]: if your client allows it! 

Sidler says, "so, do you think that it's ok that we often veered off into many directions?" 

wendyg says, "it's all hegemonic!" 

Jennifer says, "threads can begin at any time on a MOO and several threads can, and often do, exist at once" 

BillHD says, "Go Wendy!" 

wendyg says, "isn't that the way we think?" 

Jennifer says, "It think its a part of the medium. And I think its fine." 

douglasey [to Michelle]: I think it's ok. hypertextual, in a way. 
douglasey says, "but typing becomes more important." 

Jennifer says, "I once did a MOO with Mick on students in the classroom for an article he and Sandy were doing. He expected us to get off subject, it was part of the paper, and somehow we managed to get back on subject" 

Sidler says, "i felt like i was in a room with lots of people talking at once.  Entertaining, but somewhat tiring" 

BillHD says, "Well, I find it interesting that the micro-technologies in place in this room on Lingua are here to control some of the chaos...but we aren't really using them right now.  Still, we can imagine that MOOs are pretty much like other less-structured discursive spaces in that, given the chance to make a joke, etc. we will..." 

Jennifer says, "MOOing is kinda like the way iIthink, only slower and with many voices instead of just mine" 

wendyg says, "I am a natural at MOOing as a New Yorker of European(Jewish) descent. I always spoke this way and others had trouble following me. Now, in the moo, I'm do'in fine. Maybe it is partially cultural? " 

douglasey says, "Someday, I hope to be able to type as well as Michael Day or Eric Crump, who can actively participate (and I mean *active* textually) in as many as 3 MOOs simultaneously." 

Sidler says, "and I like the off-topic part, and the jokes, too, and of course, the Chinese food." 

Jennifer says, "Its the off topic that makes it feel more close knit more communal." 

douglasey [to Jennifer]: you only hear one voice when you think? 

Jennifer says, "I think MOOing could be cultural but also "taught" or perhaps better stated "learned"" 

BillHD says, "Wendy, when were you at Purdue?" 

wendyg says, "or perhaps non-anal" 

Jennifer says, "I wouldn't say I only hear one voice but all the voices are mine in my own language and vocab" 

Sidler says, "i never have to type in my brain either" 

douglasey [to Jennifer]: hmmm...my voices are very different. One of these days I'm going to learn Spanish so I can figure out what  that one guy keeps saying. 

Sidler says, "sure.  " 

Jennifer says, "Yes the technology makes this a bit different and slower than talking :)" 
Jennifer says, "Less natural :)" 

wendyg says, "for me the moo is more natural" 

Jennifer smiles at douglasey 

BillHD says, "Doug...Yo Quiero taco Bell...means I want some Taco Bell...if that's what the voice is saying..." 
 

Jennifer [to wendyg]: perhaps more natural than some mediums but I think less natural than pure thought 

Jennifer says, "I often talk like MOOing, it drives some of my friends crazy" 

Sidler says, "how do you talk like MOOing" 

wendyg says, "start one subject, go to another, return.." 

Jennifer says, "Well everyone its after 9. I'm gonna show the last slide and stop the recorder but we can still chat if we 
want" 

Jennifer shows slide #10. 

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-- End log: Monday, April 13, 1998 8:15:06 pm LinguaMOO time --