A SLIDE:

Nick Carbone writes::
[It has been suggested] not only that hypertext offers a way to play this out in an electronic technology that can literalize the theory, but also has been used as a tool for rethinking copyright, plagiarism and intellectual property rights (see Howard; Lunsford and West; Woodman and Jazmansee).

One claim made by hypertext theorists is that exploratory hypertext is presentational and that constructive hypertext allows a reader to become more fully involved as a writer (Joyce).  Guyer, in a review of hypertext fiction on the web for Feed Magazine asserted that disk-based hypertext was better because it allowed readers to be writers, a claim Coover also makes in a recent _Feed_ special issue ...

As Charlie Moran noted in his recent (CCC) review of  _Of Two Minds_ and _the Electronic Word_, while disk-based hypertext might allow a reader to write into the spaces, to make their own links and to create new spaces, that work only exists on a hard drive, or maybe a LAN.  Who else can legally see it?  How far do Joyce and Bernstein think the technology can really go in exploring theory if the practice of theory doesn't leave a single hard drive, can't be republished? Or, for all our postmodern stances, are we really modern at heart?

Mick says, "Nick is our Reviews Editor, and had a review of "Labyrinth" published on Eastgate a while back."
bernstein says, "Collaborative hypertexts have been an active area since 1987 if not before."
bernstein says, "What we're talking about here *is* collaborative hypertext -- writing so we all can read your annotations"
bernstein says, "Nelson thought deeply about this all the way back to _Literary Machines_, and much can be done today, even in disk-based texts;"
bernstein exclaims, "For example, I can use Storyspace to link from my commentary to a passage in _afternoon_ on my desktop, send my comments to you, and voila!"
MichaelJ says, "Here Mark and I differ mightily. I do want him to continue to thrive because he is an actual culture hero but I don't particularly care if my own work makes me money (this may be easy because it doesn't really make me anything more than small change and, like most literary writers, I enjoy the rewards in my teaching position, my talks, junkets, etc.)"
bernstein says, "The link will also appear from my comments to YOUR copy of _afternoon_. It's very simple and limited, but quite powerful."
Joel says, "this is exactly what I took from MichaelJ earlier, when he said that "we need a better web" to facilitate what hypertext should be.  That is, at in hypertext's best incarnation, I see the reader not only directing the reading but also the further writing of the text.  And though our web allows for Java-based and form-based *responding*, I think we need direct annotating, nod-building, and revising capablilities in some form for the readers/interactors of the web."
MichaelJ says, "Not differ about what he's saying now, of course. I was typing while he posed these comments)"
bernstein says, "Cathy Marshall, incidentally, has a very important paper on hypertext annotations in the upcoming Hypertext Conference Proceedings"
MichaelJ [to Joel]: Yes, what "webs" were in Intermedia and what Bush talked about in "As We May Think" are likely to be the publishing forms of the future, like looking through others’ eyes
Mick [to bernstein]: so the supposed cyberpunk ethic -- "information wants to be free" -- is well, claptrap.com? <giggle>
bernstein says, "That's not cyberpunk ethic, I think. It's hacker ethic. The two are quite different"
Sandye sighs... can't get some of these disk hypertexts at the local library
Mick is surprised how frequently people scream that information must be made freely available via this new medium when no one is complaining about paying fifty cents for USA Today.
bernstein says, "I can't get all of Dickens at my local library. But faith manages"
Joel says, "yep.  In a web I wrote for Kairos this issue, I give examples of MOO logs that have been annotated by students, and then one that I annotated.  But the problem is it is completely simulated:  I have the logs in one column and the annotations written statically in another column.  This betrays the notion of reading and responding, but our web won't allow the kind of intellectual interaction I'm trying to similate."
MichaelJ [to Mick]: "All art is ultimately free, despite the best laid plans of copyright lawyers. History and community each free us from economies, they are in fact constituted by their own economies of meaning
Mick [to bernstein]: Hacker Ethic as in Levy's book, yeah -- but also adopted by Cyberpunks in various followups.  The Hacker Ethic is more in depth and defendable.
Sandye [to Joel]: and even then you are constrained by the technology your students have available to them... and their abilities ot use that technology
bernstein says, "Let's not use euphemisms, ok?  We mean Richard Stallman. Not the cyberpunks -- Gibson, Shirley, Cadigan."
bernstein asks, "Let me turn the question around: should writing be a hobby of the leisured classses?"
MichaelJ nods to Mark "Yup, Gibson's one electronic work was intended to be as un-free as possible, though I have a copy on my machine if you'd like it
bernstein asks, "Should literature be the exclusive province of those with wealth or lots of free time?"
MichaelJ says, "I'm afraid I will have to go soon. I'm two days behind tomorrow"
Mick says, "Well, let me throw one further thought at you, then, Michael, specifically ... and we can and will return to Mark's questions."