Kairos Roundtable Computers & Writing Conference '98

An interactive response to C&W '98 and brainstorming for C&W '99


Special Guests and Past C&W Hosts: The following is the log of the session.


                     A large room with distant light walls and lots of hazy, but too bright, light. There
                     are several large pillows on the floor, and in the front of the room there is a small
                     platform stage with a group of comfortable chairs. Type 'up' to step up on the
                     platform stage.

Wine Tasting and Keynote Speakers nickc [to mday]: any leads yet on your keynote speaker?  

mday says, "OK, great. Now for the record, I said that we had dorm rooms available, and that Dene would do wine tasting"  

Dene nods  

JamesI . o O (wine tasting--cool deal)  

judi says, "South Dakota regional wines?"  

Dene says, "Uh, probably not:)"  

Dene says, "how about 1995 St. Emilions?"  

mday says, "Well, I think we have Misty Brave, a teacher from the res who won an award for her class' interactions with outsiders"  

mday says, "And we may get RU Sirius"  

Dene says, "That would be a good speaker!"  

nickc [to Dene]: well, I don't know, we can press some on the drive into Rapid City  

judi says, "Maybe that class can come interact at CW99?"  

Eric says, "cool!"  

Dene says, "Mikie, are you interested in a cyberpunk author?"  

Jennifer says, "Okay everyone let me whip out the slides"  

mday nods, who? I already wrote Bruce Sterling and got no answer  

Jennifer shows slide #1. 

Welcome to Kairos Roundtable C&W '98 

This Roundtable will serve as a review and response to the conference-- 
looking at the conference as a whole-- bringing up problems, concerns, 
and compliments, and perhaps brainstorming constructive conference changes and 
improvements that we can help Michael make for next year. The MOO Log for this 
Roundtable will be edited for publication and reaction in the forthcoming issue 
of Kairos (3.2 Fall). 

Roundtable Hosts: 
*Michael Day, the Host for C&W 99 And 
*Nick Carbone, Kairos Editor and Longtime Computers and Writing Conference 

Roundtable Special Guests and past hosts of C&W: 
*Anthony Rue C&W '98 
*Judi Kirkpatrick C&W '97 And 
*Eric Crump C&W '94 

If you have any questions on how to MOO contact Jennifer (type 'page Jennifer 
your question or concerns') or type 'help introduction' 

Jennifer welcomes you all

mday welcomes y'all too

Jennifer shows slide #2.
This discussion will be logged and archived. 

***Please state your name and your affiliation***. 

Want to be a part of future Kairos discussions? Join our mailing list KMTA. To join you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: 

subscribe kmta 
The log of Kairos Roundtable C&W '98 will be published in the forthcoming 
Kairos 3.2 (later this Fall) 

mday is Michael Day, South Dakota Tech  

JamesI is James Inman from the University of Michigan  

true is true, IBM corporate dupe  

judi is Judi Kirkpatrick, Kapi'olani Community College.  

GregS is Greg Siering, Ball State University and Kairos.  

Eric is eric crump, ncte  

Jennifer is Jennifer Bowie of Rensselaer Poly Tech and Kairos Response Editor  

nickc is Nick Carbone, Umas-- er, Marlboro-- er, Colorado State U.  

Dene says, "Dene is Dene Grigar from Texas Woman's"  

Annie says, "Annie is Annie Olson from Texas Woman's U." 

Who's Who
Keynote speakers: 
A conference wrap-up speaker, Possible speakers, and Scheduling
Eric says, "I dunno. 2 keynoters might be enough. We got the town halls for plenaries, too, right? And keynotes cost a lotta $$"  

Dene says, "since John, Becky and I wrote the webtext for the coming Kairos about the last CWC, should we put a link to this log from our pages?"  

mday says, "well, nothing definite on RU yet"  

nickc nods Eric re keynote cost  

Eric says, "It's not out of the question to get someone from within the community to do it. We've had cindy selfe & michael joyce do keynote duties in recent years"  

mday would bet that's a good idea, Dene  

Dene says, "judi had two top keynotes too"  

Jennifer [to Dene]: If you want to put the link please do.  

Dene says, "Good Mikie, James Inman is here, and so is Greg. Are you guys hearing this? Can we do this now?"  

Dene smiles at the Kairos guys  

mday has thought of that, Eric. Fred does a kick-ass keynote that might be good.  

JamesI says, "works for me, but Greg's the boss--Greg?"  

JamesI grins at GregS  

nickc [to mday]: You know what might be nice, is to get someone to do a post conference keynote that focuses on looking back over the conference as a whole, a good synthesizer and story teller maybe.  

Dene says, "I like that!!!"  

true nods  

JamesI nods to Dene  

mday says, "After the conference? Would this be online then?"  

GregS nods  

Dene says, "very cool, that is what our webtext tried to do hypretextually but I think a linear presentation during the conference would be good"  

nickc [to mday]: Could be, but I was thinking of maybe a last night speaker. 

Dene says, "Could we add him to Becky's thing?"  

GregS [to JamesI]: Greg is the multitasking boss. :-)  

nickc [to mday,]: course, that could be simulcast over web too  

JamesI grins at GregS  

mday says, "Well, the last night is really Sunday lunch"  

Eric says, "fred would be great"  

Dene says, "Then how about putting final touches to a town meeting?"  

nickc [to mday]: lunch is good  

mday says, "Sat night I think is the outing"  

Dene says, "could Fred cap the town meeting on Sunday if it is scheduled at that time?"  

mday thinks he could/would, "We'd need to ask him, though."  

Dene nods at Mikie  

mday says, "does it sound better to have Fred recap, or open? Maybe Misty Brave should open"  

Dene nods at Mikie again  

mday says, "Deal with the topic of Trad and Tech"  

nickc sees Fred as recap, let M. Brave open to set tone  

Dene says, "Recap?"  

JamesI agrees with everyone  

mday: "sounds good"  

judi says, "Is there going to be one more in the middle somewhere?"  

mday thinks there could be  

mday says, "If RU can come"  

nickc thinks Fred can spin the discussion out beyond town meeting/recap onto lists because he's good at being thoughtfully provocative  

mday says, "Misty would be Thu, RU Fri, Fred Sun"  

mday says, "If I can work it"  

Dene says, "sounds great!"  

Eric says, "and saturday we listen to the wind"  

mday can almost guarantee wind  

nickc listens in black and white, can't stand colors of the wind  

mday can remind you that it could also snow up there 

judi says, "ok--who's RU?"  

JamesI woos mday--no snow! (:  

Dene wonders with Judi who RU is  

mday says, "Author and pundit, very crazy. Mondo 2000, Wired, etc."  

true says, "RU serious?"  

Dene nods  

Dene says, "This sounds promising:)"  

mday says, "Has an interesting new project on political action on the net"  

nickc [to true]: Yahoo Serious's cyber brother?  

mday says, "could inject some fun AND a sense of political possibility into what we do"  

mday says, "His uncle lives here and is a good friend"  

Dene says, "Irreverence is always good"  

mday says, "So we have a connection"  

Dene says, "The cyberpunk author I have been talking to is Pat Cadigan"  

Dene says, "she may be coming to TWU for a series of talks to my classes"  

mday says, "What could Pat offer us?"  

nickc [to mday]: Political possibility is the next step, because as a group we ain't no good at it (thinking of copyright extension/privacy rollovers in  clinton admin.), nor do we know how to talk about access without hands going up in the air, also a political actionable issue.  

mday absolutelies Nick  

Dene says, "Pat could talk about the real and the imagined worlds of cyberspace, for one thing"  

JamesI writes a mean letter to his Congressman  

JamesI grins  

nickc has macro for mean congress letters  

Dene says, "political action would be a good idea, guys"  

mday says, "We could think about Pat if one of the others can't?"  

nickc presses Alt-F-U on keyboard and up comes choice of templates  
JamesI nods to nickc--laughs at Alt-F-U  

mday bets he knows what F-U stands for 

RU, cyberspace, and Politics
To Banquet or not to Banquet?  

Communal Breaking  of Bread--Forced Intermingling through food 


 When to Do What? 


mday says, "there was a lot of concern, from a very FEW people about the banquets"  

mday is not sure that this vocal abhorrence for banquets from a couple of people is worth listening to. Whatcha think?  

true [to mday]: yes? I can't imagine...  

nickc [to mday]: banquets aren't easy to do well  

mday says, "Mainly one person"  

Jennifer says, "Doesn't seem like one person would be enough."  

nickc [to mday]: Barbara used to plan banquets and catering for restaurant; I can ask her for ideas.  

mday says, "Well, do you prefer the stand-up heavy hors d'oevres? I like those."  

mday says, "with tables at which you sit down, of course."  

nickc [to mday]: you can do station h'ors d'ouevres, where food is placed around the room, which encourages mingling.  

Dene says, "Judi's conference had terrific food, what does she say????"  

Eric says, "I like those too, mday. It's good to give everybody a chance to get together, but I'm not a big banquet fan, either. Maybe have one and call it good?"  

JamesI nods to Eric  

Dene says, "How about catered from outside?"  

Jennifer nods to Eric  

nickc [to mday]: kind of like a cocktail part  

mday likes that idea. Banquet Friday, and that's it? Picnic setup on Sunday?  

true notes that there are no good restaurants in gainesville, let alone caterers.  

Dene says, "I think as much as people hate banquet food they like to dine together. . ."  

Dene says, "the notion of community and breaking bread together."  

mday says, "catered from outside can be difficult, as HoJo's is our hotel, and you can't bring in someone to cater, and SDSM&T is our school, and you can't bring someone in there either. We would have to go elsewhere."  

Jennifer nods to Dene  

mday says, "We can plead with both sources about Menu, however"  

Dene says, "Well that would take the pressure off you"  

mday says, "Thursday night, we can call the shots. We have the Journey Museum reserved."  

true [to mday]: get one of the publishers to underwrite the banquet and have it catered someplace cool.  

Dene nods  

Dene says, "Really, I think people like eating together."  

mday says, "How do you get a publisher to do that?"  

true says, "beg"  

Dene says, "like, sit down eating and smoozing"  

Dene says, "let's ask Allyn and Bacon"  

mday says, "What would be the title of the person who would do that?"  

JamesI . o O (fastest bid from a publisher wins)  

Dene says, "Doug Day may be interested"  

mday says, "Yeah, my bro, Doug Day"  

Dene laughs  

nickc [to mday]: Thursday then, keep to a simple menu, half veggie/half carnivore, and keep bar simple too, just one red, one white, champagne and a few beers and soft drinks, small tables, a few chairs so that people can mingle and move, and then go into separate room for talk if there's going to be one.  

Dene says, "Mikie, do you have a local AAHE branch?"  

mday says, "and he can bring up the Austin Lounge Lizards to entertain us."  

mday does not think so.  

Dene says, "They do these kinds of things"  

Dene says, "How about teacher?"  

mday says, "We have to buy the alcohol ourselves, so the suggestions are duly noted, Nick. That's about what I thought"  

Dene says, "how about teacher organization"  

mday says, "The SDCTE, but they are dirt poor"  

nickc [to mday]: a cash bar wouldn't be a bad thing, and keeping it simple makes your job (and cater's) easier  

mday says, "right. Ain't gonna be nor full bar"  

Dene says, "okay, so when do you want the wine tasting. . ."  

mday says, "Friday, I was thinking of HoJo's. They have a nice banquet hall, and I could work with them on the menu"  

Dene says, "and when will you play the piano for us, Mikie?"  

nickc [to mday]: how are you budgeting for this? Is the thursday gig part of conference registration and friday extra?  

mday says, "Wine tasting could be Friday pre-banquet?"  

mday says, "And the talent show Sat after we get back from the Hills?"  

mday has no concept of budget.  

Dene says, "How about *after* people get some food in their stomachs?"  

Dene laughs   

JamesI grins at Dene  

Dene says, "could be real ugly otherwise"  

nickc [to Dene]: during dinner would be best  

mday says, "Everything would be included except the Sat trip"  

Dene grins back at James  

mday says, "OK, Dene, how about AFTER the dinner Friday?"  

Dene says, "Sounds good. I'll come up with the wines and the price"  

mday is hoping to make it on a $150 reg, with say $25 for the Sat trip, and a price dene could set for the wine tasting  

Dene says, "do you have a wine shop there, or will I have to carry the wine in from Texas?"  

mday says, "all would be on the reg form. "  

Dene nods  

mday says, "Is there any reason to make the food events optional? A vocal minority asked for that?"   

nickc [to mday]: any sense of what you need to cover costs such as room rentals, equipment and such from your school and hotel?   

true says, "cost"   

mday says, "I think that breeds non-togetherness"   

nickc [to mday]: you can make it optional if there's no speaker at the dinner   

Dene agrees with Mikie   

mday says, "but I think there is a speaker, or at least I am hoping for RU then"   

mday says, "and of course, my drum and bugle corps will open the banquet"   

mday giggles   

Dene says, "piano!!!"   

nickc says, "if there's a speaker, then why would they want to miss? "   

mday says, "A few are just extremely picky about food."   

true says, "no way around it--the banquet is one of the largest budget items."   

true says, "if you make it optional, I can't imagine that it will happen..."   

mday thinks, then, that we have ONE banquet   

JamesI nods to true   

Eric says, "mday might have to hire a stand-in for piano. If I remember rightly, the chairperson is a tad preoccupied for the duration of the event"   

judi says, "That's why we used buffets."   

nickc thinks one would be enough then there's flexibility for other nights    

Eric says, "Maybe you can get George Winston? :)"   

mday nods Eric. It will be difficult to sit down   

judi says, "michael day is George Winston."   

true says, "If only because of the way registration works--you'll need to plan your banquet well before the conference, yet you'll be stunned with how many people register late. Really late."   

nickc nods Judi and that worked pretty well   

mday blushes   

mday says, "yes. And I think I have to hold the line. You register, you pay for banquet. End of story. "   

judi says, "Good food in buffet settings solves the vegetarian # need."   

mday says, "However, I will do my best to make the menu interesting, with a prominent Veg entree."   

nickc [to mday,]: But, you can set a banquet date and menu, then tell kitchen week or two before final count; if the place isn't flexible enough to deal with that, they shouldn't be in business.   

Dene says, "John would appreciate that, the veg. that he is"   

judi says, "Our costs were $30/person/meal."   

true nods for the buffet idea   

mday wonders if HoJos will let me buffet. I'll bet they would. It means lines, but lines can be fun.   

Dene says, "Buffets are good, if you have several lines like Judi did."   

true says, "but I don't think you be able to match the selection of seafood that Judi was able to put together..."   

Dene nods   

mday says, "No, and all we have that's out of this world is meat.... Sigh"   

judi says, "I was just giving mikey a ballpark $ figure"   

mday says, "thanks Judi!"   

nickc [to mday]: the alternative to lines is waiting at table for staff to make it to your end of hall. It's rare that service is smooth enough to serve everyone in timely manner. At least lines allow kibitzing.   

mday nods. I think I will go with buffet if y'all agree.   

judi says, "And mikey--even though you get a count, sorta like the airlines, you underbook by a certain #."   

judi says, "And even then, you don't fill the tables and end up paying."   

mday says, "Like how many?"   

judi says, "but in Hawaii, people went off to do other things."   

mday says, "how many under?"   

judi grins.   

nickc [to mday]: Well, you could ask Judi to pick up some fish before she flies in. Maybe they'll have another leak in the tank at the hotel and she can get some cheap.   

mday says, "Yeah, you gotta remember that we don't have that big blue attraction right across the street."   

judi says, "i think we did 270 1st night and 250 2nd night though we had about 340 paid"   

mday says, "My my... I don't think we'd lost that many, would we?"   

nickc thinks hotel must've liked those numbers.   

mday says, "er, lose"   

true says, "I don't have the numbers, but we didn't have that many no-shows"   

Dene says, "may be not in Rapid City"   

Dene says, "I wonder how the Utah conference panned out"   

true [to Dene]: Unless there's a rodeo in town.   

Dene says, "I imagine some comparison would be valid."   

mday has a budget for that one, I think.   

Dene nods to True   

nickc [to mday]: but if you talk to hotel now, they should have a range of menus at a range of prices, which would help you budget and figure registration costs better.   


A little entertainment with the food? 
Planning for late registers
Special Choices- Vegetarian 
Musical Selections- George Winston?
The Expense of Conferences 
nickc says, "What may drive costs up is that it's on a holiday weekend."  

mday will do that. Ahh, if there were time....  

mday says, "Well, they are not raising the room price, nor food, they said. They were glad for a convention that will fill the hotel"  

Eric has to dash  

Eric waves  

nickc [to mday]: call them and tell them what you have in mind, ask them to send you menus and prices for sit down banquets, buffets, and bar costs and so on. You can look it over, then get in touch with Judi and True and Eric and others about comparisons and so on.  

Eric tiptoes out.  
Eric goes home.  

mday waves eric  

Dene says, " I am glad to hear this after the prices for the NCTE"  

judi hopes HOJOs still makes their chocolate brownies 'cause she hasn't had one since the 60's.  

Dene laughs at Judi  

true [to Dene]: What was up with the NCTE?  

mday says, "Will do."  

mday says, "yeah what happened with NCTE?"  

JamesI should probably dash too, waves to everyone--take care!  

Dene says, "$140 a night at the conference hotel"  

JamesI has disconnected.  

Annie says, "yikes!"  

true says, "Yikes!"  

mday waves JamesI  

nickc reels at NCTE price  

Dene says, "I wrote a dirty note to the organizers"  

Dene says, "All the cheap hotels booked out in the first 2 weeks"  

nickc is glad it's in Denver next year, might actually go   

udi says, "We're at 160+tax."  

Dene says, "Can you believe this? We are talking schoolteachers, for god's sake"  

true says, "yeah, but opryland is kooool."  

Dene shakes her head  

Dene says, "It better be"  

mday says, "and be sure to tell folks to sub to CW99"  

Dene laughs  
Jennifer shows slide #10 

The hour had come and gone. 
Thank you for joining 
Kairos Roundtable C&W '98 

The recorder is about to be turned off. 

If you are interested in joining the KMTA mailing list to further discuss this 
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The log of Kairos Roundtable C&W '98 will be published in Kairos 3.2 

Hope you join us again for other Kairos MOO sessions such as our KMTA series! 

Dene says, "thank you Mikie for sharing this planning with us"  

mday hopes Opryland is cool! Don't forget to hang at the ACE booth!  

Dene curtsies to Mday  

mday bows.  

nickc waves g'night  

mday says, "thank you all for coming. Great suggestions!"  

Dene says, "I'll be there"  

mday says, "You are a big help"  

judi says, "Aloha a hui hou, everyone. "  

Dene grabs Annie  

GregS waves all.  

Dene says, "let's go to TWUMOO!"  

Annie says, "thanks for letting me lurk. Good to meet all of you."  

judi says, "See you soon, NCTE regulars."  

mday waves to all leaving  

Dene waves at Mday  

nickc has disconnected.  
The housekeeper arrives to remove nickc.  

judi has disconnected.  

Dene says, "Bye"  

mday says, "Nice to meet you too, Annie"  

Annie has disconnected.  

Dene hugs Judi  

Dene has disconnected. 

Saying Goodbye