Annotated MOO Log of a Student-Teacher Conference
Joel waves hello to ANNE
ANNE says, "Hello Joel"
Joel says, "Nice day for a writing conferences. :)"
ANNE asks, "hey i have a question for you in my paper how do I say that the guy that was with us was an african american or black--- I mean i don't want to come across the wrong way ?"
Joel pulls out a piece of juicy fruit. Care for a piece?
Joel says, "the taste is taste is taste is gonna move ya."
ANNE says, "no thanks i have BIG RED chumping now---thanks though:)"
Joel pulls out a stick of juicy fruit and pops it in his mouth
Joel says, "so write a little longer, conference a little longer, talk on the MOO a little longer....with big red."
Joel knows his gum commercials.
Joel chews and things about the african american situation that you write about in your paper.
ANNE laughing histarocally out loud ---amanda looks at me:)
Joel says, "you know what, that issue really concerns me altogether"
ANNE says, "amanda is now laughing too"
Joel asks, "are you saying that you got bad service just because the guy with you was African American?"
ANNE says, "well that is the conclusion that we came up with--- I mean it never ever crossed my mind when we were there but after i came home and told my paremts about it and they were the first to say something --and then i said something to the friends I was with and they seemed to agrre in amazement."
Joel says, "yes. I think it is definitely a possibility. But I think there are other possibilities too, and your calling the waiter a biggot might be a dangerous conclusion."
|ANNE says, "I really don't have any PROVE the waitress
never verbally said anything but we never got any choices on what to eat
or how we wanted our food cooked and it took an hour or MORE for her to
serve us and she never refilled our glasses but our other friends whao
were sitting right next to us got alll this and more and they arrived later
than us, had a bigger group and left earlier"
Joel says, "it could also be because you were high school students and the wiater had something against young people; it could have been because they were annoyed by all the prom people that night; it could be because it was a big group of 8. The point doesn't seem"
|wondering about my situation. realizing it may not be too smart to *ASSUME* anything!|
|Joel says, "to be *why* you
got bad service, it seems to be that you *did* get bad service..."the
point doesn't seem to be *why* you got bad service...it's okay that this
is questionable. But the point is that you *did* get bad service, and that
you want to be compensated for this."
Joel asks, "am I right?"
ANNE asks, "well i see where you are going with this should i just keep that put and JUSt complain about the service and the way we were treated and not with why we thought ?"
Joel says, "I have no idea why it said "to beagle" just then...it was supposed to be to anne."
ANNE asks, "do i look like a beagle---laughing?"
Joel agrees with Anne. You could mention some of the possible reasons...that it was prom nigh, that you were a big group, that one was black...but I wouldn't push these points.
Joel says, "the point you want to push is that you were treated badly, and you propose something specific that they could do to make up for this."
|Joel has a pt. here. use in paper|
|ANNE asks, "so you think
i should talk about the wrong doing in the service and leave race out?"
Joel asks, "and by the way, what is your specific proposal here?"
ANNE says, "I think that would be a sfer way to deal with this:)"
|Think this would be the best way to go.|
|ANNE asks, "an apology and maybe a gift certificate --i mean we paid well over $300 dollars that night---just a 10$ gift certificate would not be too much to ask would it?"||getting very angry @ the situation. memories are coming back|
|Joel thinks that wouldn't be *enough* to ask! C'mon, now.
This waiter treated you like crap, and I think you desserve more than ten
measly bucks. I'd ask for, say, at least a 10
buck gift certificate for each person involved. I think everyone in the
group should be compensated to an extent, don't you?
Joel says, "plus, the oppology is a must."
ANNE says, "okay i agreee----i guess i think that everyone has bad days , just too nice sorry i should start demanding more:)"
|--Never thought about each person.|
|Joel asks, "you could say that those in the group
have agreed that you would be satisfied if you
had a written appology from the restaraunt, and a 10 dollar gift certificate
to lure you back. Otherwise, you're afraid that you guys wouldn't have
reason to visit the restaraunt again. Know what I mean?"
ANNE says, "so I know that a letter is the best way to write this but how much should i acually put into the background"
|Nice way to Put it|
|Joel says, "I would tell the whole story. The background
you have now is good...you might even go a little further with it, telling
why you decided on this restaraunt, tell what a nice dinner you were expecting,
and then tell the terrible dinner that you had. This would really
build this up to be a problem."
Joel says, "and by the way, as is, you kinda have the background *before* you really start telling about the problem. This really seems appropriate here: you build up to the problem, which works quite well, I think."
|must put in paper. think it would add TONS!|
|ANNE exclaims, "yeah i know
what you mean the food was LOUSY and the service stunk we told everyone
we knew not to go there for PROM it just is TOOOO DARN expensive for food
like that ---I mean we (the boys) were still hungry so before the dance
they stopped at wendy's!"
Joel asks, "wow. this is a very good point. In fact, I hear a refutation developing, don't you?"
ANNE says, "thanks"
ANNE says, "a sure ---ummm yes i sure do (i think)"
|sorry got a tad bit emotional|
|Joel says, "you might argue
that it'd be too expensive to fork over 80 bucks to give everyone in the
group a 10 dollar gift certificate, but I'd argue that, if we told everyone
we knew not to go there, then it'd wind up costing you much more money
ANNE says, "All RIGHT you are the man joel----thanks I think that is a perfect refutation"
Joel asks, "let me ask this: do you have some arguments in the works for this paper? What kind of arguments (or even syllogisms) have you got going?"
ANNE says, "well i just think that if we have the same kind of money and it alll spends the exact same way that we deserve the same treatment AND they are there to serve the public people we are public people we deserve fair and good services"
Joel says, "yes. all of that is quite true."
ANNE asks, "josh wants me to ask you for one of his drafts ---what ever that means?"
Joel asks, "I must tell you that you actually have at least two syllogism arguments right in there. Let's see if we can pull them apart, shall we?"
Joel thinks Josh shouldn't suggest you start with a daught at 1:45 in the afternoon!
ANNE asks, "sure where do we start and in the paper is it okay to have two ?--would i do one and then the other?"
Joel says, "thinks that as many arguments as you can put together is great. Sure, that lame Muffler paper only had one argument paragraph, but you could have several...lots of em if you wanted."
ANNE says, "okay i will tell josh he has to wait until tonight when he and amanda go tout to the parties:)"
Joel says, "remember, now, they syllogism looks something like this: All dogs bark to communicate. Loopy is a dog. Therefore, Loopy barks to communicate."
Joel says, "I know that's kinda dumb, but that's the structure of a syllogism."
ANNE says, "i am sorry JOel I never got to read this"muffler"paper everyone is talking about"
Joel says, "let's see if we can come up with a few that might work for your paper."
ANNE says, "okay"
Joel asks, "oh. that means you haven't worked with syllogisms yet, right?"
Joel asks, "have you seen anyone elses?"
|good refutation to add to paper.|
|ANNE says, "how
about every resturant is focused on serving the public person to their
greatest ablility. YOU are a resturant. we are public people. therefore
we deserve your service to the greatest ablilty no matter who we are"
Joel says, "yes. that sounds really good."
Joel says, "that is almost a perfect syllogism, and it would work great, I think, if you put that into an argument paragraph to support your proposal."
ANNE asks, "oh yes we worked with my topic in class i have the one you worte in class for me on the over head thing with me do you want me to type what you told me i could use?"
Joel says, "not right now. As long as we're coming up with good arguments, that's what"
ANNE asks, "so what i just wrote was the proposal? and now i need to add the agurment?"
Joel says, "that's what we're talking about."
|Need to use this too. good one|
|Joel says, "In your paper
here, you'll want to make sure you VERY SPECIFICALLY tell the restaraunt
what you want them to do. Then, you use the argument section to prove why
that proposal (appologizing and sending out the gift certificates) will
solve the problem and make everyone happy."
Joel says, "that's what the syllogisms and arguments can do for you"
Joel says, "but importantly, you wouldn't just want to stick a syllogism in there...you'll want to build them up into paragraphs and let them argue your case for you."
Joel asks, "know what I mean?"
ANNE says, "okay so my argument is that they are a rest. and we did not get treated like a rest. should treat the people who are dinning there----and then i need to go into details like how we were treated compared with the others."
Joel says, "sure. that would work pretty well, I think."
Joel says, "course, there are other kinds of arguments, too."
|Must remember this.|
|Joel says, "how about this syllogism: Any
public service establishment that does not satisfy their customers should
do whatever they can to amend the sitaution. You are such an establishment
who did not satisfy us. Therefore, you should do whatever you can to satisfy
us. (and appologizing and giving us the gift certs would indeed do the
Joel asks, "see what I mean?"
Joel says, "again, you wouldn't just stick that in...you'd want to show how they didn't satisfy you, and why the gift certs would tide you over. :)"
Joel hopes he's making sense.
ANNE asks, "okay so klat the beginging of my letter i should give the back graound----then state the argument -----then the propasal---then how the propals inthe long run will help them b/c they will get more customersb/c we will not keep telling people to STOP going there----am i getting this right or no?"
Joel takes a sip of coffee.
Joel needs to say something, Anne.
ANNE says, "so give the background then what you said and then why this will satisfy us?right --I think i am starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel:)"
|another great thought that deserves a place in paper|
|Joel says, "as it turns out, the structure you are
describing does make good sense."
Joel asks, "I think, at the beginning, you mean give the background and then the *problem*, not the argument. Because you'd want to make sure you state your proposal before trying to argue for the proposal. know what I mean?"
Joel says, "but you shouldn't tie yourself to this rigid structure, if it begins to feel unnatural."
ANNE asks, "so i would have to be careful not to say the same thing twice in the background and the argument ---right?"
Joel says, "it sounds like it is really gonna work the way you've lined it out, but allow yourself the flexibility to change things around if it seems necessary."
Joel says, "regarding repeating yourself: you might find yourself clarifying and reiterating some points...repeating them just to clarify and support the ideas. But you're right, you wouldn't want to start getting redundent about things, either."
Joel asks, "know what I mean?"
ANNE says, "no i kthink that the background needs to be at the beging to grab the attention of the reader to make them realize that kthey messed up a night that every one remembers ---THE PROM night -----i think that it would have a greater effect"
Joel says, "yes. I agree."
Joel asks, "did I say that you should put the background elsewhere?"
ANNE says, "yes i do:)"
Joel says, "I didn't mean to say that."
ANNE says, "oh no i just thought that in the 6 part thing that it came some where else ---but i could be wrong though"
Joel asks, "one other issue, Anne...what about your refutation. I think we mentioned the refutation earlier, but can you think of other arguments the restaraunt might have against appologizing and forking out the gift certs? What else might you have to refute?"
ANNE says, "i think ki am starting to FINALLY understand what i have to do now ---thanks joel you are the MAN--:)"
Joel exclaims, "and you are the WOMAN!"
|got a little confused but Joel helped to clarify what I was supposed to do.|
|ANNE says, "Well
i think that they mey say that we are "just kids" and we may
not know whhat we are talking about ---but i am going to say it used to
be a VERY popular and admired place to go to for PROM but after this exprience
I know that no on else in my family or my friends family thinks of it that
way and i am sure almost positive they don't want that to go around at
school b/c Prom night is a big night for them since they are close to the
place where the dance is held"
Joel asks, "what if the waiter in question tried to argue that he/she gave you the same service that they would have given anyone? Is there a refutation you couls say to this?"
ANNE says, "oh man you got me there let me think here....ummm"
Joel applauds your last refutation about being "just kids" that's a great one.
Joel lets you think to come up with the "I gave them the same service as anyone" argument
ANNE asks, "maybe i could say that if she did give the same treatment why did the bigger group who came later who sat across form us get done earlier and not us?"
Joel exclaims, "yes. That's perfectly right!"
ANNE says, "thanks that i tried hard at that one:_"
|Think this is an important pt. and MUST be used|
|Joel says, "you might say
that you gave us the same service as everyone else who comes in. But each
of us saw other people getting better service, and your place is renown
for giving good service. it's impossible for us to have been treated so
fairly and still be enraged. No, we didn't get that good service, and we
should be compesated for that."
Joel can smell those gift certificates being mailed in already. :)
ANNE asks, "i see that will work even better---uhmmm do i put these one right after another like say ....you might agrue that.....but i claim that.....then you might also say that......------like that?"
Joel says, "well, like the argument paragraphs, Anne, the refutations will want to be developed rather fully. Probably, they will want to be their own paragraphs...each refutation."
ANNE laughs out loud "thanks i really am trying hard at this paper it is a difficult on for me:)
|good pt. and I understand why refutations are needed in paper.|
|Joel says, "take your time with them. There is a good
chance you could see me write "SLOW DOWN"
on your paper if you try to put one after another too quickly."
Joel says, "take your time with them...that's how they're effective."
ANNE says, "okay i see so it is alrightthat this letter is going to be long:)"
ANNE says, "i noticew that you like to write thta on ALLL my papers---smiling:) "
Joel says, "it really is, Anne. This shouldn't be short, like some of the personal letters we write to each other. Take your time. Good arguments take a while to develop. :)"
Joel should get a "SLOW DOWN" stamp, so he can easily mark the places people need to slow down.
ANNE says, "okay i PROMISE i will write it slowly and take my time:)"
ANNE laughs in agreement---probably save a ton of ink:)
|something I NEED to remember!|
|Joel draws Santa Clause... o<|:-)
ANNE says, "cute:)"
Joel says, "anne, it's sounding like you've got some work to do, but that this will really be a strong letter when you're finished."
Joel asks, "by the way, do you plan to address it to a certain individual at the restaraunt? Like the manager or something?"
ANNE says, "thanks you helped a ton today i actually know where i am going now"
ANNE says, "yes the manager is what i thought"
Joel says, "cool. That's what I was thinking too."
Joel says, "sounds like you're well on your way."
ANNE says, "thanks i try"
Joel asks, "any other questions or concerns for me?"
ANNE says, "no just that i hope you have a nice weekend and get all your christmas shooping done and i am going to jogg over now to get a cop[y of this so i can get started this weekend when i am in chicago:)"
Joel asks, "okay. Great. I'll print up a copy right now, and hopefully I'll have it when you get here. cool?"
ANNE says, "oh and i hope that my eng 104 teacher will be this helpful or else i am going to be lost:)"
|very cute & inventive.|
|ANNE says, "cool :)"
ANNE says, "later and thanks for all your help:)"
Joel is sure you're 104 teacher will be great.
Joel says, "if you pass Eng 103."
ANNE says, "tahnks for the confidence:)"
Joel exclaims, "just kidding, just kidding!"
Joel asks, "okay. see you in a bit, okay?"
ANNE says, "okayu i am on my way:)"
ANNE says, "bye"
|Like Joel's since of humor!|